Transmission oil leaking into engine oil

Diskutiere Transmission oil leaking into engine oil im Forum D07-Serie im Bereich Deutz / Deutz-Fahr Schlepper - Hello, I am new to the forum and I'm hoping someone can help. I have a 1974 D7807 4WD with 5876 hours on the clock, that has just dumped all the...
Gullible

Gullible

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Hello, I am new to the forum and I'm hoping someone can help.
I have a 1974 D7807 4WD with 5876 hours on the clock, that has just dumped all the black engine oil out of the engine breather tube and replaced it with transmission oil
It was so full of transmission oil that when I took the dipstick out the oil came out of the dipstick hole like a fountain. I have drained 30 lt of transmission oil from the crankcase to stop the oil leaking.
My questions are:
1. What seal have I broken and is it an easy to repair?
2. As it is an internal seal I understand that I will need to split the tractor, so would this be the time to replace the clutch, or is that in a different part of the tractor?
3. What else am I likely to have damaged (ran the tractor for 10 minutes before I realised what was happening)?

I have had the tractor for 4 years doing light grass cutting, before me it looked like it had had a hard life. It is a beautiful tractor that started first time every time. I have recently replaced all the fuel lines, had the exhaust manifold machined flat and new gaskets made up to repair the leaking exhaust. I would really like to try to repair her not send her off to the scrap yard.
All thoughts and ideas appreciated.
Gullible
 
KurtD30S

KurtD30S

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Hello Gullible,

your story is for me unbelievable.

A Deutz D 7807 manufactured 1974?
An engine that replaced by itself engine oil by transmission oil?
You question which seal you may have broken.

I am curios on other comments.
 
Gullible

Gullible

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Hi Kurt,
Your right, I've looked up my tractor on TractorData.com and it states a build year between 1980 - 1984. So there you go, 10 years younger than I thought :)
I have attached some photos as it would be good if I could identify what tractor I have.

My thoughts are that when I fixed the exhaust leak, a cylinder ring that was already weak, broke and the engine gases were forced into the bottom end, forcing the engine oil out of the engine breather pipe.

If that also damaged a transmission seal, then when the engine was stopped the transmission oil would have leaked into the bottom end. Start the engine and the engine gases would have force the excess oil out of the engine breather pipe in a short space of time, dumping the oil on the ground in a big puddle. :(
 
Gullible

Gullible

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OK so attaching photos is not as easy as I thought it would be. Any tips?
 
tante ute

tante ute

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For your oil travel problem ! you may have a closer look to your Hydraulik pump.
greetz norbi
 
S

swd40

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OK so attaching photos is not as easy as I thought it would be. Any tips?
Hi,

that works with the attachment button below the text you write (right next to the smilies button). 'upload' the image and you can insert a preview into the text. There is some limit on image size (5 mb?) so maybe you need to shrink the Image a bit.

Regards,
Josef
 
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GueldnerToledo

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Hello Gullible,

I have an similiar damage on an perkins 103-10 diesel engine. The engine oil is not going out of the dipstick even the cylinder got a deep scratch because of the broken piston ring. The oil finds its way over the piston into the combustion chamber now. So the engine is leaking the engine oil out of the exhaust valve into the exhaust pipe while running.

I let the damaged engine run without the dipstick in. There was no oil coming out of the dipsticks tube.

So in your case the reason why the oil is going out of the dipsticks tube or out of the breather tube is not the damaged piston or the damaged cylinder. The reason is that there was too much oil in the crankcase. For what reason ever.

I don´t understand why there is or was transmission oil in the engine. There only can be one reason: Somebody has filled the empty drained oil pan up with transmission oil. Maybe he wanted to fill the transmission oil in the gearbox but insted of it he filled it into the engine.

I hope you can find it out.

kind regards

Werner
 
Deutz45nullfuenf

Deutz45nullfuenf

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Hi Gullible,

why are you so sure that it is transmission oil?

As Norbi wrote it is more likely that the hydraulic oil has found its way through the hydraulic pump seal into the engine.
Maybe someone (the former owner) has always filled up hydraulic oil (15W40) because it was too low and was not recognising that the engine oil level rises.

Transmission oil cannot find a direct way to the engine.
Hydraulic oil can get to the transmission and to the engine by mistake.
 
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GueldnerToledo

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I think the best way to find out what is wrong is when you drain all oil systems including engine oil, hydraulic oil, transmission oil. Read the instruction user manual and fill all three systems up with the new type of oil they need. And not more than is written down in the manual. Now start the engine and check after a few hours and from time to time if the engine oil level is rising. You can easily control this by pulling out the dipstick and by writing down on a paper the oil level including the day you checked it.

kind regards

Werner
 
Gullible

Gullible

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Hi,
I have had the tractor for 5 years and done a few engine oil changes in that time.

I confess that I do not know the difference between hydraulic oil and transmission oil. I like the idea that it is a hydraulic oil from the hydraulic pump as that means that I do not have to split the tractor. That was the vital piece of information I was after.

It also makes sense that a leak in the hydraulic pump would have enough pressure to overfill the crank case and 'pump' the engine oil out the engine breather tube.


For your oil travel problem ! you may have a closer look to your Hydraulik pump.
greetz norbi
Hi Tante ute, in your experience, would this be caused by a broken seal or has the hydraulic pump failed and would need to be replaced.
DSCN0767.jpg
All this is happening at a bad time for me. we are building a house and my shed is full of furniture with the tractor outside. :(

DSCN0767.jpg
 
tante ute

tante ute

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Hallo
My experience in your model tends close to zero.
There're to media causing your increasing engine oil level.
Hydraulik fluid draining thru an Worn/leaking Pumpdrive into your crankcase.
an leaking fuelpump drains Diesel thru the Injectionpump into the engine lubrication system causing an exessiv Diesel smell on the engine oil.
youu may have reconised.
Set all your fluidlevels within the specs and observe.
If engine oil level increase , you have to have a los somewere.
good luck
norbi
 
Gullible

Gullible

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Thank you for the suggestions, I have three different type of oil in the tractor; engine, transmission, and hydraulic. The oil in the crank case is hydraulic oil, not transmission oil as I first thought.

This is what it looks like when the engine oil is forced out of the crank case breather tube. It was this trail on the ground that let me know something was wrong.DSCN4115.jpg
 
Gullible

Gullible

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and for those who still doubt that I have hydraulic oil in the crank case.
 

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Gullible

Gullible

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I've not started the tractor since I drained over 20 lt of oil from the crank case. so what ever is broken and letting the oil leak into the crank case is gravity fed.
 

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Gullible

Gullible

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The outside looks fine, so I've broken something inside. For a very short time there was some juddering when I last started the tractor, I probably stripped some teeth from the hydraulic pump and what-ever it is inside that powers the pump.

Anybody know where I can purchase a new hydraulic pump and what the pump connects to inside?
 

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tante ute

tante ute

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What 's about your oil level in the Hydraulic.
Very low or normal.
If you're not shure if there is some damage to your pumpe drive, remove the pump and check the gearing.
So far I know ,is the hydr.pump driven by the timing gears , any damage at this point can cause an timing delay ending up in an expansive engine damage .
Don't fire it up.remove the pump.
If hyd.fluid seacks into your crankcase by grafity, the pump might be shut.
norbi
 
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GueldnerToledo

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Do you have a spare parts list? You can find all parts you need in it and also the spare parts numbers.

First i would disassembly the oilpan, checking if everything is at place where it should be. Second clean everything in the engine block with brake cleaner. Now you can check where the hydraulic oil is coming from with a good light.

kind regards

Werner
 
Kai6.05

Kai6.05

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Hello together,

it definately does not look like Hydraulic or Motor Oil. It looks more like Diesel....

Pleaes check your fuel Tank levels!
The injection pump should be connected with the engines oil circulation. On front of the injection pump, there is a fuel pump. Very often the diaphragm inside this pump is broken and pumps the diesel into the injection pump oil pan and therefore into the engine oil.

You may take the fuel pump apart, or just exchange it. The fuel pump is not very expensive (approx. 20€ in Germany).

Kind regards,
Kai
 
Deutz45nullfuenf

Deutz45nullfuenf

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Hi Gullible, i would suggest that you follow the way Kai suggested.

Werner has no clue and it makes no sense to disassemble the whole engine at this point.

First check the diesel pump. It really looks like Diesel. It should also smell like Diesel not like worn hydraulic oil right?
 
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