Transmission oil leaking into engine oil

[GueldnerToledo]

Hi Gullible,

Harm is right. I have no clue and he is the man who matters most...

I never said to disassamble the whole engine. If Harm don´t want to understand me right , it is his problem.
I only said to disassamble the oilpan. I do this by my own even the engine is okay. But is it good to know what is inside the oilpan, for example oilmud that you can take off the oilpan. A friend of mine found an screw in it...

Even it is Diesel i would disassamble the oilpan to check and clean everything. With an disassambled oilpan you can check what is dripping into the oilpan by putting an clear surface under the engine. Then you can directly check what is dripping down and you can smell on it. Diesel has an other smell than engine oil, engine oil has an other smell than hydraulic oil, hydraulic oil has an other smell than transmission oil.

If there is there is no smell it´s GTL or water...

Good wishes for the new year from the man who has no clue at all.

kind regards
Werner

 

[Gullible]

OK, I like the idea of diesel as it would explain the volume of fluid that I'm removing from the crank case and the fact it is gravity fed. We are in the middle of summer here and I am on a lot of hay fever medication so my sense of smell is dulled. That and the fact that there is a lot of leaked oil everywhere makes it hard for me to identify the fluid.

Not that I'm pleased if it is diesel. I replaced all my fuel lines and installed a brand new Deutz fuel lifter 6 weeks ago.

I'll remove my fuel lifter today and see if it is leaking. I'll also clamp shut my fuel lines from the fuel tank and see if that stops the fluid filling up the crank case.

 

[Deutz45nullfuenf]

Hey Gullible, its not the fuel line nor the filter. Take care of the pump, where the line from the tank ends. But if you say its gravity fed shutting of the fuel line should bring clearance!

Good luck and all the best for 2021!

 

[Gullible]

I believe I have found the 'why'.
It looks like I trapped the fuel return line in the air cooler housing the last time I cleaned it out. The injector pump must have kept increasing the pressure until something broke.



Not the fuel lifter.There was a lot of diesel in the fuel lifter, but then there had been a lot of diesel in the crank case. I drained the crank and swapped the fuel lifter with an old one, then did not seal the fuel lifter against the engine casing. No diesel leaked out of the fuel lifter, but there was still diesel leaking into the crank case, so the leak is further up the line from the fuel lifter.


My guess it that I have blown a seal in the injector pump. Any idea if there is a seal between the injector pump and engine housing that is repairable or is it lightly that I have damaged the injector pump and need a new one.

 

[Gullible]

the fuel return line that I trapped.

 

[Gullible]

The diesel got to the level of the fuel lifter!

 

[Gullible]

So the most likely situation is that I've damaged an internal seal that separates the oil from the diesel in the Bosh injector pump. Once the seal was broken the diesel can leak into the crank case via the oil return holes by the timing wheel.

Does anyone have any information about what I might have broken in the injector pump and whether it can be fixed while attached to the tractor?
If not do you have any tips or are there any threads that explain how to remove the injector pump from the engine?

 

[Kai6.05]

Hello Gullible,

The Bosch injector pumps housing is directly connectet with the engine oil housing.

The only separation between Diesel and Oil case are the injection elements and the diaphragm of your "fuel lifter".

As I see, you already had exchanged the fuel lifter. Did you drain the cranck case of the Motor once more and put some fresh 15W40 Motor oil inside?

At the places in your picture it can leak oil, since the oil level inside the injection pump should be higher.

Thes small hose next to the fuel lifter is for the lubrication of the injection pump housing.


You may take off the big cover plate with the 2 bolts (Oil may leak out) and see, if you destroyed some pump elements, which are still leaking the diesel into the oil housing.

Kind regards
Kai

 

[Gullible]

Well it looks like I have a leak at the injection elements.

So I blocked up the holes for the oil to see if I would still get diesel in the crank sump.

 

[Gullible]

Then I realised that the diesel could leak into the crank past the lifters at the bottom of the springs.

I dried out all the springs inside the injector pump to see if diesel was seeping thought an injector element seal.

Can anyone tell me what is the name / model of injector pump I have.

Also, can anyone tell me, if I replace the injector element seals by lifting the injector elements out of the top of the pump housing, will I need to get the injector pump re-calabrated?

 

[swd40]

Hi,

the pump is a Bosch PES4A ... Next numbers are more details to the pump.
http://amoko.free.fr/Documentations/bosch/PES3AC.pdf
Here a similar pump (3 cylinder, rest is the same).

Regards,
Josef

 

[Kai6.05]

Hello Gullible,

for a short time (approx. 5-10min), you may run the pump without the cover (of course a pan underneath will be needed). Maybe then you'll see if you have a great leak at the pump elements.

Kind regards,

Kai Heetjans

 

[Deutz45nullfuenf]

@kfrptr Kannst du hier noch einen Tipp geben?

lso, can anyone tell me, if I replace the injector element seals by lifting the injector elements out of the top of the pump housing, will I need to get the injector pump re-calabrated?

 

[KurtD30S]

Dear Mr. Kirkby,

I made a wrong assumption in posting no. 2. I have to apoligize for that.

Furthermore I would highly recommend to you, following the instructions posted by Kai Heetjans "Kai6.05" because his recommendations are strictly systematically and therefore target oriented.

What also might be supportive to look at, are the youtube video clips of Schrauber Channel Dominik and Wilfried.

Good luck by getting your Deutz D 7807 up and running again.

Best Regards,

Kurt

 

[kfrptr]

Hello Gullible,
Have you already checked whether the fuel does not get into the injection pump via the fuel feed pump?
Simply dismantle the fuel pump at the three nuts and see whether fuel is leaking there when the fuel shut-off valve is open.

If this is not the case, then open the injection pump side cover and pump with the lever on the fuel feed pump and observe exactly where the fuel comes out. Then take a picture of it and post it here.
There are no seals here. No seal is installed between the pump piston and the pump cylinder, and neither is there between the pump cylinder and the pump housing (see yellow arrow).
If the fuel escapes between the pump piston and the pump cylinder, the pump pistons are very badly worn. And if the fuel escapes between the pump cylinder and the pump housing, the contact surface in the pump housing is damaged.

Did you open the injection pump somewhere?

You cannot disassemble the injection pump while it is installed in order to check these points. To do this, it must be expanded. If spare parts are replaced in the injection pump or the contact surface in the injection pump housing is reworked, the injection pump must be readjusted on a test bench.
I'm curious to see if you can find the leak.
Have fun searching.

Greetings Peter

 

[Gullible]

I replaced the fuel feed pump and ran the engine for a couple of minutes. The engine ran fine, but when I loosened the 3 nuts of the feed pump, out came diesel.

There was no diesel on the springs when I removed the Injection pump side cover.

So my last question before I pay a specialist to drive an hour to have a look.
is there a seal between the high pressure side of the pump and the Governor (the part attached to the left of the injector pump in my photos)?

 

[kfrptr]

Hello Gullible,
What happens when you unscrew the fuel feed pump and move the hand lever on the fuel feed pump?Then fuel comes out too.How much diesel flowed after you disconnected the fuel pump? It could also be that there was still fuel in the governor housing.Let the engine run for a while and see if fuel still flows out or if less fuel flows over time.Fuel from the injection pump can only flow into the governor housing via the camshaft bearing.

Greetings Peter

 

[Gullible]

Ahh, that could explain the gurgling nose when I stopped the engine. I thought it was diesel flowing into the governor, but instead it could have been diesel flowing out of the governor.
I'll run it a couple more times and check the results.

 

[GueldnerToledo]

Maybe it is the best choice if you ask your next workshop?

Kind Regards
Werner

 

[Gullible]

Well I finally found a nearly local outfit that understood what I was talking about and knew a lot about Bosh injectors.

He took the top off the injector elements and put in a new coper washer and O ring. No more leaking from the top of the injector elements. He also checked to see if there was diesel leaking through the injector elements into the springs below. No more leaks into the body of the injector.