F2l712 pump element stuck / einspritzpumpelement

Diskutiere F2l712 pump element stuck / einspritzpumpelement im Forum Motor im Bereich Allgemeine technische Fragen - Hello! I'm a Deutz lover from Sweden ready for my first thread here, my German despite 5 years of studying it is only good enough to understand...
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Hello! I'm a Deutz lover from Sweden ready for my first thread here, my German despite 5 years of studying it is only good enough to understand most of what I read here so if I may I'd like to write in English :) Because love for machinery and Deutz is universal right? Okay so here's the thing, I recently bought a Fuchs 301 (see image below) but I am having some troubles with the Deutz F2l712 engine.

IMG_1767.JPG
It's been sitting under roof for about 10 years before I bought it, most things seem to be working well after some lubrication but the engine barely starts and then dies slowly over about 5 seconds, probably because it only gets diesel to the first cylinder and not the second. I have a Deutz F2l514 that had the same problem where it was the pump elements that needed to be lubricated and freed as they had gotten stuck. I was gonna try the same on the F2l712 but got a bit confused. I unscrewed the diesel connections and the two bolts but the pump element wouldn't budge, do I need to remove the entire injection pump side / lid to get to the element or should I try something else? Maybe I am wrong about the diagnosis so I am very open for suggestions on how to fix this, presumably with as little work as possible since I am eager to get going with the machine.
:D
If you prefer German to English ill gladly read it (or even try write in it) but it will be quite slow and rough for me. Thanks in advance!


P.S I also have a D10006, another F2l514 project apart from the working one, a loose BF12L813 engine and a Poclain 60PL with a Deutz engine, then lots of other fun machinery that sadly isn't related to Deutz so wont show it to not get banned :D
 
O

Oberwesterwälder

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Hallo Charlie,

die passenden Suchwörter für die Lösung deines Problems heißen "Pumpenplatte" und User @Obrschwob.


Hello Charlie,

the appropriate search words for the solution to your problem are "Pumpenplatte" and User @ 'Obrschwob'.


https://www.deutzforum.de/index.php?search-result/1814671/&highlight=Pumpenplatte


Deutz D 25 F2L812 qualmt und dreht ganz schlecht hoch


Gruß Martin


P.S.: Eventuell kann einer der Mods, wie @Obrschwob schonmal angeregt hatte,
die Dateien seiner hervorragenden Doku zu der 612/712/812er Punpenplatte mal im Bereich Motor oben fest anpinnen...
 
D

Demian

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Hallo Kegeln,
da der Motor anspringt und abstirbt, halte ich feste Elemente nicht unbedingt für den Fehler.
Eine unzureichende Dieselzufuhr oder schlechte Verbrennung, kann ich mir vorstellen.
Beim Fuchs 301 ist der Tank über dem Motor und hat meist keine Vörderpumpe, so das der Diesel aus dem Anschluss reichlich fliesen müsste.
Bei schlechter Verbrennung kann man unterstützend, nach dem starten, mit dem Glühanlassschalter nachglühen.
Gruß Demian
Hello bowling,

Since the engine starts and dies, I do not necessarily consider fixed elements to be the fault.

An inadequate diesel intake or bad combustion, I can imagine.

When Fuchs 301, the tank is above the engine and usually has no Vörderpumpe, so the diesel from the connection would have to tile plenty.

In case of bad combustion, after the start, you can relight afterglow with the annealing starter switch.

Greeting Demian
 
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Vielen dank Martin und Demian! :)

Martin, thank you very much for the good tip! I have started reading what you referenced and if I understand correct i can try remove the second pump again, pull it out carefully and hopefully get the plunger or something moving that is stuck. If that doesn't work I will need to remove the pumpenplatte, have I understood that right? :) If I need to remove the pump plate, do I need to be super careful with how the gear is in order not to get the timing wrong? Are there any tricks to this?

Demian, thank you! That is a good possibility too that the diesel supply needs some cleaning, though since one cylinder gets a good amount of diesel and the other one gets nothing I still believe it might be the plunger in the pump element as my smaller Deutz F2l514 has the same trouble keeping alive when the injectors need bleeding / airing. It is quite crowded in between the engine and the counterweight so I try to pick my battles haha :D

Apropos, Ich finde meine Name ist "Bowl" wenn ich have "Pine cone" gemeint :D Ein gut historie für die Zukunft
 
D

Demian

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Hallo Bowl,
der Motor springt an, dann muss er auch laufen.(wenn auch nur auf einem Zylinder)
Ein laufen lassen des Motors (mehrere Startversuche mit nachglühen) um ihn die Möglichkeit zu geben, sich durch Vibration und Wärme selbstständig frei zu kriegen.
Beim zerlegen des Motors, könnte er auch ausgebaut werden.(ist schnell gemacht und erleichtert das Arbeiten)
Gruß Demian
Hello bowl,

the engine starts, then it has to run (if only on one cylinder)

Run the engine (several start attempts with afterglow) to give him the opportunity to free himself by vibration and heat free.

When disassembling the engine, it could also be removed. (Is made quickly and makes work easier)

Greeting Demian
 
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Okej Danke! Ich will probieren das :) ein versuch ohne zerlegen zu müssen sind gut :D
 
Obrschwob

Obrschwob

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Charlie,

check the plungers on the plate!! They must move freely. Never start an engine with fixed injection-plungers! The engine will run uncotrolled into the exitus!
When the Engine dies, the fuel ist not enough. Clean all filters an look if there is an internal filter in the fueltank or a bottom-tank-valve which is closed from aged fuel becoming resinous. Is en external fuel pump existing? This could be damaged because of a cracked pumping membrane - only if existing.

Very often the F2L712 was sold/assembled including the tank unit in other use as on/in agricultural vehicles/tractors.

Greetings
Martin (Obrschwob)
 
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Vielen Dank Obrschwob! As you and Demian suggested I will check the diesel flow. When it comes to the plungers, do I unscrew and pull the concerned pump out of the plate and look there? The fuel cutoff slides and all seem to be working correctly, this was not the case for my F2l514 so I have some brief experience with Deutz pumps seizing up. If I remember I will try post a video later after trying this :)
 
Obrschwob

Obrschwob

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I'll think, you will do your job correctly. We wait for your report.

Photos would be nice! Video ist luxury ;)

Kind regards
Martin

p.s.: sorry, my english ist not the best
 
Lausbua

Lausbua

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Ein laufen lassen des Motors (mehrere Startversuche mit nachglühen) um ihn die Möglichkeit zu geben, sich durch Vibration und Wärme selbstständig frei zu kriegen.

check the plungers on the plate!! They must move freely. Never start an engine with fixed injection-plungers! The engine will run uncotrolled into the exitus!

Servus,

soweit ich mich grundsätzlich in die Materie eingelesen habe, halte ich den Vorschlag von Demian für sehr riskant und daher den Einwand von Martin für umso wichtiger, daher auch nochmal in deutsch (verbessert mich gerne, falls ich etwas falsch verstanden habe:(
Solange die Vermutung besteht, dass ein Plunger festsitzen könnte, bloß nicht versuchen den Motor zu starten. Es könnte zum unkontrollierten hochdrehen komnen und schwere Schäden verursachen.

Und das was Charlie bisher beschrieben hat deutet doch ziemlich sicher auf ein oder mehrere festsitzende Plunger hin. Er hatte dieses Problem ja schonmal an seinem F2L514. Aber ich denke Charlie weiß mittlerweile wo er ansetzen muss.

@ Charlie: do it, like you just wrote. Check the plungers, if diesel comes to the pump, like you did at your F2L514.
 
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Hallo alles! :) I managed to get home early so at around 15 i could start working on the Fuchs, hoping to get something done before it was too dark to work about an hour later. After some checking on things, gently heating on things and the intake hat taken off in worst case we were able to get the engine working really well! :D Both the throttle and the fuel cutoff works perfectly now, and of course i have some eyecandy for you!
She started running better after a bit and now everything seems good except for the throttle being a bit slow, but oh well! I even tried moving it, but knowing nothing about how to drive it and darkness all around me i only managed to let the arm down and pull it in slightly, resulting in me officially digging with a cable backhoe :D
0125bb9646995dfae5958951381e1a50be198ba4c9.jpg013e1d704af73c01fe7312446f882ee688a98aea32.jpg
Scared of tangling the wires i stopped for the day (or night) and started washing her in the dark with a lamp as help, my pressure washer got some issues sadly so i had to continue washing with some cloth. At least now I know the paint is much nicer under the dirt, the windows are also see-through again which will help me next time :)
0119039da462aab2ade59afc7b64775c7e087f68cd.jpg01f8344352930a3d5fc7421db1b8f3d857bcce8996.jpg

Vielen dank zu alles! I will surely stay on this lovely forum since I have more Deutzes and a love for them, would any of you be interested in seeing more of the Fuchs? I guess they're quite common in Deutzland but here it's really rare. Maybe its best i keep the Fuchs thread on our Swedish forum, which you are very welcome to check out :)
https://www.maskinisten.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=319823&p=4235618#p4235618

Gruß Gott aus Charlie!
 
Obrschwob

Obrschwob

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Sounds good and healthy.
index.php

This ist the pressure relief valve on the right! From the right: corner-piece, suspension, valve

The pumpelement or plunger ist on the left behind the suspension. This should move easy in and out to inject. Turning meens amount of fuel to inject.
If fix, never turn it! Only press or pull it to remove.

What a fumbling place to remove the plate ;)

Greetings
Martin
 
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I cannot thank you enough! 8o
 
D

Demian

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Hallo Charlie,
schön das er wieder läuft und das ohne großen Aufwand.
Das Bedienen des Fuchs, ist schon etwas aufwendig und lässt sich nicht so einfach erklären.(eventuell würde ein Bild von den Bedienhebeln und Pedalen, ein erklären erleichtern)
Gruß Demian
Hello Charlie,

nice that he runs again and without much effort.

Operating the fox is a bit of a hassle and can not be explained so easily (maybe a picture of the controls and pedals would make it easier to explain)

Greeting Demian
 
Thema: F2l712 pump element stuck / einspritzpumpelement

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