Hydraulics stopped working

[Ian]

Dear site administrators,

Sorry but I think I posted this in the wrong place - under D series - I should have posted it here. Can you remove the original post?

Hello All,
I have a D5506. Recently I noticed an oil leak on one of the hydraulic cylinders for the front lift. Yesterday the hydraulics became unreliable and soon afterwards stopped working all together. I could not use the front or rear lift.
When I checked the level in the tank it was very low - almost empty - it required 6 litres to fill up.
The hydraulics will still not work. I have ran the engine for 30 minutes or more.
The tractor is noisy and I cannot tell if the hydraulic pump is running normally or damaged as a result of the lack of oil earlier.
I wonder if it is necessary to apply pressure somehow in order to prime the pump?
Any advise for getting the hydraulics working again or questions will be very welcome!

Danke and sorry I have posted in English!

I think it's okay to reply in German if that's easier - Google seems to translate quite well.

- Ian in Norway

 

[KurtD30S]

Hello Ian,

key is getting all the air out of the hydraulic system. When it is noisy, I assume the hydraulic pump is working but get sometimes air beside the oil. If you continue running the motor and the pump in this current condition, that is not leading to the desired result but contain the risk that the pump will be damaged due to lack of oil.

Each of the cylinder for the front lift has a "bleed screw" with a "purge valve function".

I would propose to get the front and rear systems to the lowest level.
- To open the fill screw on the hydraulic bloc and fill it up to required level (see instructions).
- To open the nut on the hydraulic pump from the thicker tube (return line) to ensure oil can run from hydraulic bloc to pump and press the included air out.
- To open the nut on the hydraulic pump from the thinner tube (pressure line) for the same reason as mentioned before.
During this procedure please keep an eye on the oil level in the hydraulic bloc an refill as much as required.

Which equipment of front lift does your tractor have? see pictures.

best regards,
Kurt

 

[Ian]

Hello Kurt,

Thank you very much for your reply. That sounds like very good advise. I will try those steps and let you know.

I should clarify that when the tractor is running I cannot hear hydraulic pump running because the tractor engine is so noisy. It would be useful to have some test to make sure the hydraulic pump is still working.

The tractor has a shovel on the front similar to the tractor by the hedge row in the picture you posted. I will post a picture of my tractor...

I will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again,

- Ian

 

[KurtD30S]

Hello Ian,

to test if hydraulic pump is running I would propose:

engine off
open fill screw on the hydraulic bloc
engine on and be prepared to switch engine off immediately as oil may come out of the hydraulic bloc

visible oil movement inside the hydraulic bloc or oil overflow = pump works

no oil movement inside the hydraulicbloc = pump out of order

The above described does not mean that the pump has its fullest power. It indicates only that the pump is able to move oil.

But if currently the hydraulic pump is less noisy than the engine, that sounds good. In case you hear the hydraulic pump that sounds like iron grinding with iron.

Good luck, Ian.

 

[Ian]

Thanks again Kurt,
I will try that test - sounds like a very good idea.

I did attempt to remove the return and pressure lines from the hydraulic pump yesterday but I did not know whether to loosen the nut on the pipe or the four Allen bolts on the connection?
The Allen bolts were very tight.
I did loosen the bolts for the hydraulic pump and oil began to leak out so some oil id definitely there!

I will add some pictures later.

Thanks again Kurt!

 

[KurtD30S]

Sorry Ian,

that I did create confusion. With nut I meant "spigot nut" marked on the picture attached here.

I had better used the dictionary before posting.

I apologize again.

Kurt

P.S.
Did you clean the filter in the hydraulic bloc?

 

[Ian]

Hi Kurt,

That's okay. I did loosen the four spigot nuts but I was worried that if I continued the entire pump would come off - so I stopped loosening them and I tightened them back up. Oil did leak out while the nuts were loose.

I followed your advise to remove the tank filler cap and started the tractor - unfortunately there was no movement in the oil - it was very still - so maybe the pump is damaged?

I decided to "listen" to the pump via a metal rod - placing one end on the pump and on end in my ear I could hear the pump movement and it did not sound too bad. I know mechanics do this to check bearings sometimes.

I have not cleaned the filter. That looks easy enough to do so I will try that next.

If that does not work do you think the pump is bad? I wonder if I can order a replacement or find a used one? It is a Bosch pump - I will write down the exact model number tomorrow.

Thanks very much for the help Kurt!

- Ian

 

[Ian]

Hello again Kurt,

So I found a pump on Ebay for 100 Euros. That seems like a good price.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Hydraulikpumpe-T...?pt=Pumpen&hash=item588a418196#ht_1429wt_1058

I would like to be sure that the old one is bad though..I will check the oil filter first as you advise, then try to get the air out of the system.

If it still does not work would you recommend I buy the new pump?
Is there a method to be certain the old one is bad?
Do you think a broken pump is the most likely cause for the non working hydraulics?
Will it be difficult to change?
As I mentioned the Allen bolts on the pressure and return line flange connectors are very tight!

Thanks again for all the advise.

Here is a picture of the tractor - you can see I use it for clearing snow - the snofres on the back is very heavy! I do like the tractor though. I have a lot of respect for German engineering and quality - it is a pleasure to see something old work so well in cold and difficult conditions.

 

[KurtD30S]

Hello Ian,

I cannot judge from here whether the pump is good or bad. I would propose to measure the volume. As per information of Michael Bruse and Karel Vermoesen's book "Alle Traktoren von Deutz und Deutz Fahr" the volume should be 27 liter per minute at 2,300 engine rpm. If you have a Bosch Service station closed to you, try to disassemble the pump and let it check at the Bosch Service station and you will be in a position to judge about the condition of the pump. Construction machinery stations may also be able to do this check for lack of Bosch station.

With respect to most likely cause, the honest answer is: I do not know.

I do not find a repair manual for your particular type 5505. Maybe someone who reads this may post here the appropriate pages of his manual. Thank you in advance.

I have not yet changed this type of hydraulic pump. I have changed the pump of my D30S, but that was connected to the engine in a different way.

Kurt

The underlined words are links to web sites.

 

[Ian]

Hi Kurt:

Sorry for the delay - I have been busy with some other work. I did remove the filter and it seems fine. It was not dirty.

So I think it must be the pump. I will remove that and inspect it.

What do you think about this source if I need to buy a new one?
http://cgi.ebay.de/Hydraulikpumpe-T...?pt=Pumpen&hash=item588a418196#ht_1429wt_1058

Do you think these pumps are good enough quality?

Thank you!

- Ian

 

[Ian]

Hello Kurt (and anyone else reading this)

I removed the pump - well most of it...I cannot get the lock nut off - that you access from the housing in front of the pump. I wonder if it is left hand thread and should be removed in a clockwise direction??

Anyhow, the pump seems to be in perfect condition. There was some unwanted material in there though - I can't tell if it's some sort of cloth or paper - but I wonder if it was enough to block the small channel/hole that the oil runs through between the gears. I think it will re-assemble the pump and see if it works after a good cleaning.

If anyone has more helpful advise please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[KurtD30S]

Hello Ian,

I have to apologise, I do not every day read the threads in here.

With the hydraulic pump, you referred to in your link, I have no expierience yet.

The lock nut might have left hand thread, but I cannot say for sure as I lack experience with Deutz of 06 series. I am more familiar with D-Series up to 40 h.p. and engines type 612 / 712.

I do not know why members who have that knowlegde do not post, although you wrote in your first posting, daß auch in Deutsch geantwortet werden könnte.

best regards,
Kurt

 

[Ian]

Hi Kurt!

Thanks - I removed the lock nut. Standard RH thread. Now I just need to pull the gear off - it's tight - I can use a bearing puller.

The pump appears to be in perfect condition so I hope it was the cloth/paper that was causing a block.

I will clean it, re-assemble, and filter the hydraulic oil to clean it. Hopefully my hydraulics will work again then.

if I have other problems I will try to post in German - using Google translate.

All the best,
Ian

 

[KurtD30S]

Hi Ian,

hopefully you are not too disappointed that no one else than me responded to your questions. Please continue to use this forum for any questions you may have around your Deutz.

I wish you good luck with your proposed work to do. This sounds reasonable to me in order to get your system up and running as before.

All the best,
Kurt

 

[Ian]

Thanks Kurt,

I will keep using it - although I hope the tractor runs so well that I will not have to.

I think this is one of the best forums I have used although it's clearly more useful for people who can communicate in German

You have been extremely helpful. I find Germans are very polite people.

I will keep you informed.

All the best,

- Ian